Preach It Woody
by RockyNuggets on Feb 24, 2010 9:13 AM MST
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Gotta say sometimes I disagree with old Woody but this business today is right in line with my thoughts on the matter...although the polls say a majority disagree with us.
http://www.denverpost.com/sports/ci_14458666
I'm mostly just big on tradition. Also the Big 12 is just plain held in higher esteem than the Pac10...its why we get to lose the national championship to the SEC every year. I don't think the additions of CU and Utah will change that either. We can't even recruit Colorado at this point so I doubt we are going to start prying the 5 stars on the coast away from USC and UCLA even if we stop by to drop a game in their neighborhood every year or two. I tell people that as long as CU beats CSU and Nebraska its a successful season for me even if we lose the rest of the games...I don't think I'm going to care if we pound Washington State and Utah annually.
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Disagree
I understand people missing the matchups with the Big 8 programs and especially the Nebraska game.
The recruiting thing about not being able to recruit Colorado makes very little sense to me. We had a bad year in-state for the 2010 class after 3 straight years of great in-state classes. And what programs did we lose most of the guys to? Pac 10 programs: Stanford, Cal, UCLA and Arizona State all pulled top 10 Colorado kids.
Fact is, the money, booster support, academic prestige and cultural similarities all say that CU needs to be part of the Pac instead of the Big 12. Those things trump tradition.
Besides, all indications are that the Big 12 is dying anyway. As someone posted on one of the Buff message boards: Consider the old SWC that had an 80+ year tradition. Do you want CU to be like Arkansas, the first program to leave… who landed in the lucrative SEC? Or would you rather be Houston (like CU, located in the largest tv market in the conference), who held on until the bitter end only to get left out in the re-alignment… seeing its strong football program and elite basketball program become also-rans in C-USA?
More exciting games!
It would be awesome for CU to join the pac 10. The campuses and academic standards are more replicated then what the Big 12 offers. CU would fit better with the Pac 10. If we get to vote, my vote would be to join the Pac 10 hands down. Just a lot of reasons that makes it a great choice for the long term. The Northwest is a beautiful place to visit for road games. Come on, who loves going to the midwest to watch our team play? Nothing to do, but only watch football.
Good points buffnik
I think the comparison to the SWC is interesting as well as the parallel to losing our recruits to Pac 10 schools, when we do lose in-state players. It’s true that Woody’s suggested division alignment isn’t wonderful, but any move isn’t going to be perfect. It seems like the possibility of Nebraska and CU agreeing to an annual multi-year home/home series is ignored. Maintaining that rivalry as an non-conference game would be fine and could still be played the day after Thanksgiving much like Florida v. Florida St. or Notre Dame vs. USC which are high profile non-conference games at the very end of the season. I’m more interested in playing Nebraska every year than CSU anyway.
I don't get it...
Mainly the part about academic prestige and the culture. Everyone feels like we need to be hanging out with the Stanfords and Cals of the world. Heh…at least at this point we have something to hold over the heads of our conference brethren. We move and we won’t be better at anything at this rate. I hear the argument that we would be more on par with the entrance requirements and the athletes we could get but there are plenty of other schools out there who do more with less.
On the other hand I suppose I can see some of the points being made and I do believe we would be more competitive in the Pac-10…but I don’t like it. Leaves a bad taste in my mouth. Honestly I believe that a lot of this movement is related to the sorry state of the athletic department right now. If we were still going to Big 12 title games on an annual basis I don’t think there would be this outcry to jump ship on the conference.
"Fans like home runs. And we have assembled a pitching staff to please our fans."
Clark Griffith - Washington Senators owner
Woody's Suggested Alignment
That was another point that bugged me. How does Woody know what he alignment would be?
Sure, we could end up with a North that included CU, UU, UW, WSU, UO and OSU. With that, the South would be USC, UCLA, UA, ASU, Cal and Stanford.
We could also end up with CU, UU, UA, ASU, USC and UCLA in one half. Or some other alignment.
Maybe the Pac goes to 14 (New Mexico + a Big 12 school like KU or NU) or even 16 with whatever alignments those scenarios would bring.
My point is that I don’t know what the divisional alignment would be and neither does Woody. For him to use a guessed at alignment to go on a rant is bush league journalism (and I’m being kind).
And I also found it funny that he ripped on Corvalis, Eugene and Pullman. The 1st 2 are near a major city (Portland) you can easily spend your time in and then drive to the game. All 3 are near great outdoor activities spots (hiking, boating, kayaking, fishing plus skiing and climbing for Pullman). Compare that with Ames or Manhattan or Stillwater or Lubbock or etc, etc.
The Division Alignment
is the deal breaker. If it is the CA schools in one Division and everyone else in the other then I say we decline the offer. However a point that has not been made is that we are not without some pull in this negotiation. The Pac – 10 wants the Denver Market. We can work to ensure that the CA schools are split up (Stanford and Cal in the North)as a condition of our changing conferences. If they want expansion and the Denver market, you give us what we want, annual trips to CA.
Great Point
Last thing we need in the Pac is to have 1/3 of the conference where most of the media dollars and recruits are (plus the AZ schools going with them on everything). It would be a repeat of the Big 12 mistake that put so much in Texas, including league offices and the football championship game.
On that subject, if the Big 8 had stuck to its guns back in 1994 by just going to 10 teams with Texas and Texas A&M then I don’t think we’d be talking about leaving. Conference would have probably expanded West to take New Mexico and Utah by now and we’d have a much stronger conference.
I doubt the CA schools will split up in any conference realignment
And I am sure the conference headquarters will be in California. Where else would they be?
Again, Woody is drinking too much
Woody needs to realize this is about money, Texas is going to leave the Big 12 and likely will be in the Big 10, why because of money, with the Big 10 netowrk they will get 30 million more a year and trust me, if Nebraska gets asked, they are jumping to the Big 10 as well, for the same reason. If CU is smart, they will go with the PAC_10 because the PAC-10 wth Denver can set up a PAC-10 network and start generating the same money for all the schools. Sticking with the Big 12 to play Nebraska is stupid, you can still schedule them as a non-conference game. And trust me, Oregon beats Kansas, Iowa, Oklahoma, as far as going to games. Eugene is awesome for games, the only Pac-10 city that blows is Pullman, other than Austin, there is no Big 12 “city” I would want to travel to. And lets face it, Texas and Oklahoma only come to CU once in a blue moon, so what does it matter, if USC, ASU and the southern conference come in the same way. At least we would get those teams, I rather have games against Cal, Standford, USC, UCLA, ASU, Oregon, UW than the likes of ISU, Texas Tech, OKS, K-State, and Kansas.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
by Broncoman on Feb 24, 2010 4:24 PM MST reply actions 1 recs
yes, yes, yes
100% agree with your comments!
Disagree
Nebraska will not be accepted by the Big 10 as they provide zero TV market and will be just another school to split the pot evenly with. The Big 10 would like Texas to join but they will not. Texas enjoys by far the largest share of Big 12 revenue and #1 access to Texas recruits. It is assured a top recruiting class every single year with a high probability of a Big 12 championship and possible NC. Joining the Big 10 would mean a lot of cold weather games, high travel costs, and competing against Big 10 schools like OSU and UM for Texas recruits(in addition to OU and TexasA&M already).
Also, when the SWC broke up the Texas legislature stepped in, essentially forcing Texas A&M to join along with Texas wherever they went. So UT and TA&M come as a package deal essentially, they will not be split into separate conferences. Neither will join the Big 10.
The most likely school to join the Big 10, I think is Missouri. They provide pieces of the KC and St. Louis TV markets. They may not be up to snuff academically however which could the kabosh on that. Notre Dame is the only school that fits if they could just get over themselves and join.
Nobody cares about what schools the students would more likely travel to. It’s unlikely CU will ever match other schools in traveling fans as theirs just too much other stuff to do in CO. CU should not join the Pac-10 unless we can be assured that we will not be placed in a lesser division like the current Big 12 north. Having an all California or South division would dominate recruiting power against the Washington, Oregon, Utah, Colorado schools. Foolish move as CU would also loose access to Texas. Winning is what produces almuni donations and CU needs to get back to doing that or they are in trouble.
The Big 12 revenue is shared equally
Why would they still not get the pick of Texas recruits, they could play in the SEC, ACC, or MWC, it wouldn’t matter. The Big 10 money is much more than what the Big 12 can offer because of the TV contract. And trust me, Texas can find a way to change the law to allow them to join.
And recruits care what school they play, it is a hell of a lot easier to tell a kid guess what we have dates in LA, Phoenix, and No. CA in the winter than Iowa, Kansas and the likes. Most recruits will be excited to play in major markets like LA, the Bay Area, Seattle versus the po dunk Stillwaters and Manhatten Kansas and Lubbock.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
I don't think "tradition" is a valid argument
Just because something is old doesn’t mean it is better. At the end of the day, hope the leverage gets us a bigger piece of a bigger pie of money, wherever that may be.
A bigger pile of money
Is with all the CU alumni on the west coast. Bring the Buffs to the Pac 10 (12) and more donations will come to the program.
Typical Woody
Pulls stuff out of his butt and then launches into a rant based on his assumptions of what he thinks he knows. Woody’s not a journalist, he’s a ranter.
As many have pointed out, he doesn’t know what the conferences would be, and neither does anyone else.
CU needs money, end of story- that’s what this is about. If the PAC conference provides that, then that’s that. Tradition doesn’t mean squat when you’re broke like CU is.
utah won't be going anywhere b/c the mwc will get aq bcs status.
mwc will add boise, fresno and houston. bank on it.
I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. I was building a house, I don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. Bang. "Unforgiven" I drink your milkshake. I drink it up! "There Will BE Blood"
by wolfmanshowlforever on Mar 6, 2010 4:55 PM MST reply actions
That could be, and that would make sense
But if Utah sees more money in the Pac-10, there is no way they would not leave the MWC.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"Good, bad, I'm the guy with the gun" - Ash from Army of Darkness
"H.I., you're young and you got your health, what you want with a job?" - Evelle from Raising Arizona
"It happens sometimes. People just explode. Natural causes." - Agent Rogersz from Repoman
i'll guess we will know this summer b/c the mwc is going to be better than the pac-ten for the third straight year after next season.
tcu, utah, byu and either airforce or wyoming will be in the final top 25 after next season. that will make the fourth year we had at least three teams in the top 25. 2011 is the year they decide whether the mwc gets aq bcs status. i say we get it and we might not even need to add three teams. maybe just one. they guy below has alot of if’s in his equation and byu won’t goto the big 12 b/c they won’t play “any” sport on sunday. over the last two years the mwc has beaten the pac-ten teams straight up (including bowl games) more times than they have beaten us.
I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. I was building a house, I don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. Bang. "Unforgiven" I drink your milkshake. I drink it up! "There Will BE Blood"
by wolfmanshowlforever on Mar 8, 2010 8:02 PM MST up reply actions
I like the MWC, I'm not trying to disrespect it at all
and you’re right, they have done very well head-to-head against the major conferences, but NONE of that matters. It’s all about money and prestige and the MWC has very little of both. Face the facts pal, there isn’t one team in the MWC that wouldn’t jump at the opportunity to join a major conference.
In 2011 we will probably get aq bcs status. if not, your are right.
I'm all about covering the spread and moneylines. I was building a house, I don't deserve this, deserves have nothing to do with it. Bang. "Unforgiven" I drink your milkshake. I drink it up! "There Will BE Blood"
by wolfmanshowlforever on Mar 9, 2010 2:43 PM MST up reply actions
I think you've kind of got that backwards
mwc starts adding teams IF Utah and CU goes to the Pac-10 and Mizzou to Big 10. Then maybe BYU and TCU goes to the Big 12. At that point no way will the mwc have an automatic bid. Utah will jump at the first opportunity they get.
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