Current and Future State of Men's B-Ball
by nebraskasux on Feb 26, 2009 4:13 PM MST
18 comments
I know there aren't a huge number of big CU hoop fans here (and I can certainly understand that, trust me), but I was just reading the recap of last night's loss over on the DC site and I thought I would share my thoughts and ask you all for yours.
Sure, we all knew this would be a really tough year for a really young team, but I think most people (myself included) thought there would be significant improvement next year as the team matured. I'm not seeing that "light at the end of the tunnel" right now. Bzdelik said after the game that "we're just a soft team." OK, no argument there, but we are a "soft team" because Bzdelik is recruiting "soft players." We've got all these white euro-style big men who can't rebound, defend, or score down low and they aren't gonna suddenly transform into different types of players next year just because they're a year older. Next year's incoming class appears to me to be more of the same.
I've always liked Bzdelik and you certainly can't argue with his basketball credentials, but our game plan just doesn't make any sense to me. First of all on offense, what the heck are we doing? I've seen lots of teams run Princeton-style offenses, but never as bad as we do. I remember watching Princeton play Duke a few years ago. Obviously Duke was way more talented and won fairly easily, but Princeton at least looked like they "had a plan" and scored multiple times on back-door cuts. When was the last time we actually HAD a successful back-door lay-up? I can't even remember. We just bring the ball down, pass it around forever and then either Higgins bails us out by creating his own shot or something really ugly happens (much more often the later). On to the D: I HATE the zone defense we run. First of all it doesn't work (teams get way too many open shots against us) but even more importantly it kills our defensive rebounding, which is probably the #1 weakness of this team. I can't even count how many times this year I've seen an opponent put up a shot and we'll have 2 guys running at the shooter, 2 guys up at the top of the key (or somewhere else way out of rebounding position) and Tomlinson (or some other rebounding-challenged player) down low to crash the boards.
I was encouraged by some of our close losses to good teams but I'm starting to wonder if I really should be. I don't think any of the teams in the Big 12 really take us seriously and give us an "A" effort. I also think our games have been relatively close because we play such a "grind-it-out" style of ball and we don't give the opponent enough possessions to really blow us out. When a team gets up like 18-9 or something against us it's pretty much game over. They can just coast to victory because there is no way we can make a big comeback with our offense. I think this has been a monumentally horrible season when you factor in our strength of schedule. What are our best wins of the year? They've got to be against a banged-up CSU team and our lone Big 12 win against ISU (who then annihilated us the next game, which I think kind of proves my point about other Big 12 teams sleep-walking against us). This is the worst CU b-ball team that I can remember in my time as a fan. I hate to say it, but Patton never had a team that looked this bad and as completely rudderless out on the court.
For those of you who are interested, tell me why I should have hope for next year being any better. Cory Higgins is a great player, but he is the only guy on our roster who would start for another Big 12 team. Who's gonna help him out with the scoring? JJW is certainly not a "talented" basketball player but he is our only tough inside presence and he'll be gone. Would anyone here bet the over on say, 3 conference wins next year?
Alright... don't know why I wrote this and sorry it's so negative, it's just that I love college basketball and I would like nothing more than to see CU field a competitive team and have good fan support year in and year out. I'm just kind of concerned right now.
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great points
and like you said, what is the reason for optimism next year? it is going to be tough to see more than 12 – 13 wins next year either. Bzdelik will probably get 5 years for improvement. I would argue the program was more dead than it was in football but I am with you, this team’s inconsistency is killing me. And I agree on the Princeton offense and this isnt it.
The Ralphie Report - Go Buffs!...All Colorado Buffaloes on SBNation - http://www.ralphiereport.com/
but I am a little more patient about bball than football because
there is a ton going against it and I truly believe that Bzdelik is a good option and the best option we have at a head coach
The Ralphie Report - Go Buffs!...All Colorado Buffaloes on SBNation - http://www.ralphiereport.com/
I had a post about this a while ago on my blog
CU has lost nine games this year by single digits, and many of them were close and down to the wire. Add in the Texas OT game, and that’s ten.
Hypothetically, turning those losses into wins would put this team in the top 4 in the conference – with road wins at Kansas and Oklahoma.
What would fans be saying in that situation? This is a team loaded with freshmen (who’s best player, arguably, is a sophomore) playing together and playing well. Sure, they can improve, but the talent is there.
The view changes when those potential close wins turn to close losses. Aside from that wet fart in Ames a couple weeks ago and getting rolled by Mizzou early (no shame since they’re easily a top 15 team), they’ve been competitive in the Big 12 conference all season. Yes, they had a couple bad losses out of conference, too, but this is a better judge because these are teams you’re going up against more often AND recruiting against.
Compared with my alma mater, Oregon, who have the same number of conference wins this season (1, which they got last weekend – almost a month after CU), the Buffs are competitive and going in the right direction. It was always going to be a rebuilding year for Bzdelik, but with so many young players coming back next year, how can you not be excited to see what they do with a full year of experience and offseason training under their belts?
The expectations should be higher, especially once the team gets all the new facilities. And the expectations for Hawkins and the football team should be higher, too. But this will be Hawkins’ fourth season next year; right now this is Bzdelik’s second, and really the first with “his” players.
I’m not a seasoned expert by any means, but I’ve watched a lot of basketball and the Buffs are losing games by rookie mistakes. They’re not overmatched coaching-wise, or talent-wise, really; they’re just incredibly inexperienced.
by Doug-e-Fresh on Feb 27, 2009 12:17 PM MST reply actions 2 recs
I hope you're right, I really do
So we’re just a few bounces away from being 4th in the conference? I like your optimisim, but I think that’s pushing it a little bit, besides, only 6 of those 9 single digit losses were in conference.
I definitely agree with you and irish above about giving Bzdelik a couple more years before it’s time to panic (where as the 2009 season is judgment day for Hawkins as far as I’m concerned), but I still don’t see a lot of reasons to be optimistic. Crawford had the great resume (Kansas player of the year in HS, at Wake Forest, supposedly fit Bzdelik’s scheme to a T and tore it up in practice last year) but he’s been in the dog house all year and never gets off the bench. Is he gonna transfer again? Who knows… Veal (our top recruit from last year) has looked pretty good to me when he’s been on the court (an athletic big man, exactly what this team needs) but he never plays and Bzdelik has been giving big minutes to walk-ons all year instead. I’ve heard he is a hard-working good kid, can you give any insight for why Bzdelik won’t give this guy some game-experience in what is obviously already a “lost season”?
I also agree the rookie mistakes are really costing us (I’m going down your post point-by-point). Admittedly I’ve only been to one game this year but I’ve watched the majority of the televised ones and I would disagree about us not being overmatched talent-wise, in fact that is exactly what I’ve seen. Like I alluded to in my original rant I think our close games have been close sometimes only because of our style of play. It seems like Bzdelik is saying “there is no way we can keep up in a high-scoring game or guard you guys straight-up so we’re gonna hold the ball 30 seconds every possession on offense and play a funky defense just so we don’t get blown out.” Maybe I’m totally out of line with that but that’s kind of how it seems to me.
Anyway, thanks for yours and irish’s response and I would love to hear any more rebuttals, because honestly, like I said above, I hope you’re right :-)
Thoughts
Again, I’m not as experienced as others covering the program, but I know enough to really tell that this team is close. Yes, single-digit losses are a marginal barometer, but, well, take a look at this.
Now the only reason I bring Oregon into the conversation is because they’re also a freshman-laden team with one conference win – on the surface, they’re in identical situations, right? Check that link – and the scores. And the scores are very indicative of the results – overmatched, players all at sea and not nearly playing together.
Colorado might be a bit outmatched still in some regards, but they’re not getting swept off the court (games at Missouri and Iowa State aside). Considering how strong the top of the Big 12 is this year, that’s not a bad comparison.
Do they run a very slow game? Yes. Gimmick defense? Yes, but everybody does weird zones in college. (And gimmick or not, they’ve worked to a degree, right? If they didn’t the scorelines would be uglier).
They’ve legitimately been in these games late – and through various methods, choked. Considering the youth on the team, it’s understandable. If they choke again next year, or Bzdelik starts becoming a weak link game-planning wise, break out the pitchforks. But I doubt either will actually happen.
by Doug-e-Fresh on Feb 28, 2009 1:05 AM MST up reply actions
Since I've probably seen less then 5 minutes of Oregon b-ball this year
I can’t make an educated comment there, but hey, in CU’s and OU’s games against common oppenents OU is 2-2 and CU is 0-3. I would also say your alma mater played a more difficult schedule. Maybe 2 or 3 years from now we’ll be discussing a CU vs Oregon national championship game. Ya think?? :-)
No, they've been terrible
They’ve been getting blown out by teams that are roughly equal quality-wise in the Big 12. The marquee win? A home beat-down of K-State during the Big 12/Pac-10 shootout.
The “common opponents” is a bit of a misnomer because the wheels fell off once the conference season started, and one of Oregon’s two Pac-10 wins is over Stanford – at home, just over a week ago.
And it’s UO. UO UO UO UO UO. We’re not the Sooners, it’s JUST the former Big 8 schools that have it inverted.
by Doug-e-Fresh on Mar 2, 2009 10:00 AM MST up reply actions
I knew that wasn't looking right when I was typing it, got it, UO
your Ducks won again though, thats 2 conference wins, 2 wins against teams CU lost to (like you said I know that doesn’t mean much, but still…), RPI ranking 70 spots higher, and you put down your team’s marquee win? It’s better than CU’s marquee win. I’ll go out on a limb and say UO beats CU (and I did watch some of the Oregon State game, they look more talented to me).
and just glancing at the RPI rankings, CU is the lowest ranked BCS team, right? Thats not good. Don’t know why I’m debating CU vs Oregon, but I just don’t think we can overestimate how bad CU is this year. Close games, shmlose games :-)
I think the key for this team is confidence
Its evident when you see our offense. There is so many potential shots that are not take by everyone, then they just pass it around forever, till the shot clock hits 4, and forces cory to take a bad shot. I think that with growing up they will be more comfortable taking open 3’s instead of passing, which will make our offense so much more than it is now. Just look at Levi, he has been garbage for two years, but he is starting to turn it on lately. He also isn’t afraid to cut inside now which leads me to my next point.
Another thing that we really need as you hit on, would be a big man who actually has a presence in the paint. I think our team has the potential to be a great shooting team, but the majority of the players have no ability to penetrate and get physical. If we got a big dude to just chill there and crack some sculls, we could get some more easy baskets. Shooting is great, but if you have no inside presence, a simple zone just shuts you down.
Im optimisitic about our team also, Cory has two years to grow and mature, and Thorne has a lot of potential. i also like what i saw from Ryan Kelly on wednesday, if he hustles like that all the time, he deserves a place on the team.
"It's like an owl without a graduation cap; Heartbreaking!!" -Tracy Jordan
here's why I have hope
Last year, my expectations for the football team changed. In ‘07 we lost big and won small and barely squeaked by. I expected then to win big and lose close, and I would have been happy with that, even if it didn’t reflect in the record. That didn’t happen, and it was my biggest disappointment.
This year, the basketball team is losing close. I take that as a sign of hope for the future.
I’m not sure Colorado will ever be able to recruit the kinds of athletes required to be a force in the NCAAs, but I have hope that we can win 20 games, mess some shit up, and challenge for an at large bid every year- not just the years we have a Donnie Boyce/ Chauncey/ David Harrison type. I’ve said before that I feel like Bzdelik is recruiting an entire team of glue guys, and that’s frustrating, but at the same time- that’s Bzdelik’s system, and I hope it’s enough.
By the way, if anyone wants to keep up with one of my favorite former Buffs, DJ Harrison, check out deadlyhippos.com, where he contributes blog posts along with Josh Townsend and CBS sports writer Clay Travis, among others.
As for the game today,
That was pretty ugly. We had a close game on our hands, then fell off the face of the earth. who gave Casey Crawford the idea that it was good to shoot 3’s? He would miss the shot, no one would get the rebound, then they would take it down and throw down a three. That killed us. On the plus side i’m glad BZ wore a suit. it was very professional of him. Well done.
"It's like an owl without a graduation cap; Heartbreaking!!" -Tracy Jordan
I won't comment on the actual game
but yeah, I’ve always thought b-ball coaches should wear suits. Those yellow shirts have looked a little sketchy this year.
I don't know what it is about Bzdelik
He just rubs me the wrong way, I think his style works at Air Force or another more rigid school, but what I think CU needs is a coach that can bring in some fire, fun, and make it an exciting game to watch, I think if you can at least make it fun and start building up a good student body support, then you may be able to start getting some of the better recruits. Bzdelik just seems like he really doesn’t care about the student body and being part of the University atmosphere, maybe I am wrong.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"McDaniels must go!" - Broncoman
buff basketball
we stink. we really, really stink. anyone thinking otherwise is delusional. higgins is the only player we have that would get playing time on any other big12 team.
What if? Larry Brown?
I believe Bohn is doing it the right way. He has hired the right people, and is building the programs the right way. Unfortunately it takes time.
Three years ago, I would have gone for the quick fix. Fired Ricardo (eat his salary) rather than lose the whole season and lured Larry Brown back to Colorado to teach young men, instead of manage millionaires. Brown had just been fired by the Knicks and owed $15M.
Larry Brown would have filled the seats, created a buzz and brought in blue chippers from around the nation.
I know it would require selling our soul. Pulling a K-State. Brown would have left 3 or 4 years later – but we would not have lost the past 3 years, and the cupboard would be full and the program would have some momentum.
I don't know where you get that
But I see no reason to think that Larry Brown can recruit high school kids, and a coach wouldn’t feel the seats for long if the team doesn’t win (especially in Boulder, where we struggled to fill the seats in non-Kansas games even in the Chauncey days), and frankly, Brown hasn’t coached particularly well of late any way. There are guys I would have preferred over Bzdelik, but Larry Brown is not among them.
And frankly, we will never be able to “pull a K-State” because some of those guys just won’t qualify for CU.
by Hallux Valgus on Mar 10, 2009 7:29 PM MDT up reply actions
Oh I was on board with that
I think that would of been great, and he sure as hell can recruit, I think that would of been a great retirement gig for Brown, and I am sure he would of loved the idea of building a national power at CU.
"Me fail english, that unpossible" - Ralph Wiggum
"Duffman is thrusting in the direction of the problem" - Duffman
"McDaniels must go!" - Broncoman
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